Kris Safarova 00:45
Welcome to the Strategy Skills podcast. I’m your host, Kris Safarova, and today’s sponsor for our podcast is strategytraining.com. If you want to strengthen your strategy skills, we have a gift for you. It’s download one page, and it is called the Overall Approach. Houston, well managed strategy studies, and you can download it at firmsconsulting.com forward slash overallapproach. And today we have with us a very special guest, Topaz Adizes, who has a father who is famous in Russia, and he is now a famous person too. He actually has a Tiktok following of 1.2 million, YouTube following of over 900,000 and he’s also an expert on deep questions, and I’m looking forward to have this discussion with you Topaz.

Topaz Adizes 01:30
Thanks for having me Kris.

Kris Safarova 01:32
So let’s start with, how did you manage to build out your following to 1.2 million on Tiktok, and especially 905,000 on YouTube, because I know some of our listeners are thinking about building their professional brand outside of the workplace and sharing the expertise. And I would love to get your advice on that.

Topaz Adizes 01:51
I don’t think I have much advice to give there, because our intention was never to grow a big audience. And when you say those numbers, I mean in some sense, people think that’s a lot, and then in other circles, it’s not a lot, and in some one thing that my team and I are very aware of is that we could be a lot bigger if we edited our content in more salacious ways, if I gave our titles in more click baity ways, we would get much bigger, but We wouldn’t have this long term project that we’re invested in, which is called the and the and is about the space between. It’s about the relationship. Because relationship is not you or I, us or them, it’s you and I, us and them. So the and is what illuminates the space between. It’s basically the humanity that exists between us. So how do we cultivate that space that’s been, that has been the Endeavor my team and I have been sat on for the last 11 years, where we bring people into a room, we present them with questions that they ask each other so Mother and daughter, best friends, lovers, couples, exes, co workers face each other, ask each other these questions that we present, and we film it with three cameras and at all times for the audience, when we edit that, we always show both faces at the same time. And what that does is it tells you that it’s not just the speaker that’s important, it’s also the listener. And matter of fact, it’s not in each of them individually that are important. It’s them together, collective. It’s the relationship that’s important. And I think that’s put us in a very unique position of being a corner of the internet. That’s a digital dose of humanity, and we have been very invested in that since day one. We’re now 11 years in. We’ve done this with over 12 150 pairs in over 10 countries. So not only do we have this incredible spec breath of of relationships, of pairs that have shared their experiences together, but also depth, because people come back year after year after year. We have people have come back, you know, eight times over 10 year period. So you can really see how people grow and change in the relationships, and I think it’s a powerful tool that we’ve created. And when you talk about the numbers, I think it’s because we found an audience and we consistently give. We’re consistently asking ourselves, how we can offer value. And sometimes there’s an edit where we know we can get make it viral, and can go viral, it could be big, but then the conversation is going to be, why this person’s a prick? Why is this person so toxic? Why is this person, you know, so rude, and let’s just troll and beat up on that person. And yes, they’ll get a lot of views. I’ll get engagement, but we ask the question, what’s the value in that? Why are we taking these viewers time to have them basically just spit on someone and being instead, we ask, Where’s the value in this conversation, and how the value is to deepening other people’s lives by watching this conversation, and that’s been the measuring stick. That’s been the fundamental question we’ve been asking in our edits, and that’s why we’ve grown at the rate we’ve grown. I mean, a lot of people. I’d say you’ve been around 11 years, you should be much bigger. And so for us, it’s nice that we’re finding community, but I think it’s really about the engagement and the effect that we have on people’s lives by virtue of the content that we create.

Kris Safarova 05:12
Topaz and do you remember when you decided to do this project, what made you decide how that idea came to you?

Topaz Adizes 05:18
So I was a filmmaker for many years. 20 years, I had short films that went to Sundance, I had short films that went to Cannes. And I remember being after the Cannes Film Festival right two years back to back at Sundance, and the third year I was at Cannes, which is very wonderful experience for any director three in a row, you’re at the biggest festivals in the world, and nothing happened. I had a script lined up and I was ready for the and have a lot of friends who are very successful in Hollywood, in that, in that, in that system, very successful. And for me, it didn’t really happen. And obviously I was wondering, Why, what’s going on? I mean, how where else do you go then can is the biggest film festival in the world. And a few months later, it was July, August. I was in Russia. I was in St Petersburg, and I uploaded the video, the film, onto Vimeo at the time, and I forgot to put a password. And I realized I forgot to put the password, because a few days later, Vimeo picked it up as short of the week, and within a week, I had half a million views. And so that catalyzed the question, what game Am I playing? And I think one thing for the listener to hear, and the value of this is it’s in the power of questions, which may be a cliche path questions, but I really want to elucidate the questions shape the answer. We all focus so much on the answer, we’re not realizing that we may be answering the right question. The right answer to a wrong question. Put all your emphasis on the question, not the answer. That’s that’s the learning lesson I want to share. So at this point in my career, I was wondering, How can I be a big film, film director, blah, blah, blah. And I changed the question, and I said, Okay, what game Am I playing? Am I playing the game of the movies in the theaters? Is that the game, or am I playing a game of ejecting ideas into the mainstream? That was a more interesting question to me. How do I inject ideas in the mainstream? How do I create conversations in the mainstream? Well, the phone, digital media seem I mean, look what just happened. I just half a million people just saw my video in a week. How much time money and energy that that take me? It was a totally different experience. It was a different question that I was more interested in answering than the first one about, how can I be a film director and make a film in Hollywood, right? Actually, for me, cinema was not that low brow. It was actually more of I always saw cinemas modern day, popular culture, meditation. People are coming into a theater. They sit down. Their breathing pattern is consistent. They’re focusing forward. And in some sense, it’s popular culture meditation, and there’s value to that. But I’m more interested at that time in injecting ideas in the mainstream. And if you’re if that’s the question the don’t make films, create digital content. And that led to the point of, what, if you’re making digital content that’s on your phone, don’t make it the same as you would for a TV or a movie, because watching a TV or movie is different than watching something on your phone. And so that led to many different things that down to winning an Emmy for new approaches to documentary, two World Press, photo awards, blah, blah, blah, and really building a community around human connection. And so I applied that question to an A theme. And the theme was, how is the experience of being human, the emotional experience of being human, shifting into a world is technology? And so that set me off on on the journey.

Kris Safarova 08:59
And that first video that you uploaded and forgot to put password? Was it that format of two people on camera, and you see both people.

Topaz Adizes 09:07
That was a film called boy that went to Cannes, right? And so then that’s what game of one want to play, inject ideas the mainstream, okay, if it’s in digital media formats on your phone, how do you create content for that? And then I had to find a theme and not find a theme. But I was looking around and I was dating my brother was 16 years younger than I dating in both of us in New York, and I was shocked by how he was dating differently than I totally different because he is 16 years younger. He grew up with technology at his fingertips. He was engaging with the people he was dating totally different via text and messaging and social and dating apps than I was. And I said, wow, we’re only 16 years apart, but look at how totally different we’re engaging with with potential romantic partners. The emotional experience of romance and love is fundamentally shifted. I. And yet, we humans are so good at adapting to change that we think it’s always been like that way. Isn’t that an interesting question? Let me explore that. And so that’s what’s led me to create the skin deep, which is an experience design studio focused on exploring the experience of being human in lieu of all these technological changes. And the flagship was the and that we launched, which was this format of two people facing each other, asking questions that we filmed, and that went on to win the Emmy, and that was been, what’s really been driving our success online. We now sell as an E commerce company, all the questions so people see these conversations, and we say, Do you want to have these conversations in your life? You can buy, you can buy one of or 15 editions for any kind of relationship, and ask these questions, and then the book has come out, 12 questions for love. And that’s basically a distillation of what have I learned from the last 10 years watching over 1200 people have intimate, cathartic conversations. And if you think about it, it’s a really privileged position. How many of us get to really see vulnerable, honest, real conversations of other people? You don’t get that, to see that in real life, and me and my team do, and it’s a privilege and an honor, and we’ve learned a lot from it. And what we’ve learned is, how do you hold the space? What does that even mean? And how do you construct powerful questions? That’s something that we’re very good at, that we know, and we’ve had that because our data set is over 1200 conversations deep.

Kris Safarova 11:34
So how do you hold the space? And I know it’s such a deep question, but maybe we can cover a little bit.

Topaz Adizes 11:40
Yeah, I think it’s a big one. I think for work, let’s just do this. Just one is intention. What is the intention of this base you state it so for let me, okay, what is this guy talking about? That sounds very fruitful. Okay, let’s just make it easy. Two examples. I’m gonna give a work example and a romantic example. The romantic example, you’re listening to this podcast. Great. You get home and your partner all of a sudden looks at you and says, Why do you love me? Now you’re not going to be wondering why you love your partner. You’re going to be wondering, why the hell are they asking me this when I just came in through the front door. Where’s this coming from? So the space hasn’t been created for you to give an answer, nor for them to receive. Flip side, you get home and your partner comes in and says, I love you so much. I want you to know how much I love you. Kris, you mean the world to me. You’re you know, I have grown so much. Thank you so much. I love you. You’re fundamental to my life. You’re not actually going to receive that love and that acknowledgement. Because you’re wondering what the hell just happened that I just got home from my drive at work, and these my partners tell me, I would say, look, what happened? The space hasn’t been created. The space hasn’t been created for you to receive or for you to give. Right now, if you get home and your partner says, Hey, I got a box here of card games. It’s a bunch of questions. Let’s just pull one out and ask it and talk about it. You pull it out, why do you love me? Ah, space has been created because intention has been made clear. We want to play a card game. This is a card game of questions. Sorry, about a relationship. That’s the intention. Let’s see where it takes us. Okay, so you’ve answered the question, and by answering the question, you’ve created the space, the opening for you to give and to receive, for people to know what is acceptable, you know, what is the permissive actions to take in this in this conversation. So let’s talk about work as an example, right? Okay, how many times you have a meeting at work and one and maybe one set of people, or one person is very impatient, because no decisions are being made. You know, everyone knows that maybe that’s you, maybe that’s your colleague, but someone’s just looking at the clock and like, why are we wasting our time having meetings? We’re all talking about ideas, but nothing gets decided on. Well, maybe that meeting is actually a brainstorming meeting. What if the leader of the meeting said, Listen, this meeting right now is a brainstorming meeting, which means that the permissible actions behavior here is we’re all going to do yes, and we’re going to improvise off each other. We’re going to give there is no bad ideas. We’re just throwing it out. The point of this meeting is not to a solution. The point here is to come up with ideas. We can have another meeting or another phase of this meeting to then decide. Now, this part of the meeting, or the next meeting will be about coming to a decision and deciding how we’re going to execute it right. We often run into meetings left and right, and we don’t know what kind of meeting it is that makes a very ineffective team coherence, because we have different expectations of what the acceptable behavior is, right? I mean, very simply, I used to do brainstorm meetings all the time, and one of my colleagues was like, Topaz, how can we have this meeting every Wednesday? We COVID What? And we never decided anything. And it’s like, great ideas. It’s like, because the point is, it’s a brainstorming meeting. So now my team and I, we always say, what kind of meeting is this? This meeting is going to be a brainstorming and execution. We’re going to start with brainstorming, discuss it, and then we will clearly make a demarcation that we’re moving into an execution part of the meeting, which means we’re deciding how we’re going to execute it. We’re going to say who’s going to do it, how and by when, right? Because, similarly, maybe, maybe you’re in a team, and you’re like, every time I talk to my boss, all they want is to know by when, how and this, and they tell me what to do. And they’re not in they’re not engaging me. I have all these ideas, I have all these things I see about how we can prove but they’re not even asking you that if your team, if your director, if the team leader, is saying, like this meeting is for this, and that means for that, then we know the intention is set. The space is created for what is expected, what’s acceptable, what’s not. That’s what I mean by creating the space. So long winded one. I hope that’s helpful.

Kris Safarova 16:03
Very helpful. Topaz. And what about during the recording with those two people on set? How do you create space there?

Topaz Adizes 16:11
So it begins, you know, the experience begins from email from them filling out the form. I make sure we never misspell someone’s name, because the point is, when you create a space for conversation, the intention is, we’re going to create the space for you to step in and for humans to be humans. We’ll create in the space to explore. That’s our intention. Okay, now we need to hold that space so that people feel safe. But let’s not confuse safety with comfort. It’s not the same. Some people say, Oh, I don’t feel comfortable. That does not necessarily mean you’re that you’re not safe, right? And, matter of fact, sometimes you feel comfortable, maybe you’re not safe. So let’s not confound safety and comfort. There are two different things, but safety you want to have, and ideally you want safety, and yet you want to have people uncomfortable. Because when you’re uncomfortable, that means you’re growing, you’re learning something new. You’re testing something out. You’re stretching your emotional muscles, your communication muscles, whatever kind of right? So creating a space where people say a you make sure that they’re acknowledging you’re not misspelling their name. Very simple, but all the way to one thing I’ve learned from doing as a film director before documentaries and fiction, was I noticed early on that when you’re interviewing someone, they are actually reflecting you the person who is interviewing the interviewee is a reflection of the interviewer. So a very inexperienced interviewer is going to be there, and the interview interview is sitting there, and they’re maybe a little nervous. And if the interviewer says, Hey, don’t be nervous. Don’t be nervous, that’s not helping the situation. Instead, you you show what you want them to be. So if you want them to be more real and honest, maybe you curse, because then you’re breaking the space. Maybe you laugh, make a joke. If you want them to be vulnerable, you be vulnerable. So when people come to do the and the most important thing for me and the team that I the crew that we have, is just about the way that they be. Are they open? Are they honest? You know, you don’t have to act a certain way. You have to be who you are, because if you’re going to be who you are, that’s already giving permission to the people who are coming in to be who they are. We are. What’s beautiful about humans is that we reflect one another. If you notice, we’re always reflecting one another, we’re always trying to find a space of mutual reflection. You know, how often do you go to a dinner or a meal and you sit down? I don’t care if this is someone in your family. This is when you just met these colleagues, or not your conference. What happens you sit down, everyone looks in the menu and what’s the first question that comes up? What are you going to order? What are you going to order? What are you going to order? Why does it matter what they’re going to order? Because we’re trying to find some sense of cohesion. So such a reflection. Oh, you can have the steak. Oh, I didn’t think about was thinking about this, okay, right? This is a natural thing we do. And I think it’s also quite beautiful. I mean, it’s, it’s and the thing that’s unique about humans is that you get to choose how you’re reflecting. You get to choose how you’re reflecting. You know, are you going to reflect through an optimistic lens, a negative lens, cynical lens, suppress. You know what? How are you reflecting others back to themselves? It’s a choice you can make.

Kris Safarova 19:53
This is powerful. How do you select people so that you have this vulnerable discussions?

Topaz Adizes 19:58
Well, we. Mean, one thing I tell my directors training when we do the end is you cannot have any expectations. That’s part of creating a space, is that you cannot have an agenda. Agenda is where you end up, and intentions where you begin. So if a director is sitting there wanting everybody to cry, you know, then, you know, I had one director called me doing a production in France, she commented, she said, Topaz, after day one, it’s not really working. Like, what’s going on? She’s like, well, they’re coming in, they’re not really crying. I said, Well, that doesn’t mean it’s not working. It means it’s not meeting the expectations you have, but doesn’t mean it’s not working. People are who people are, and by having that intention of allowing then you’re open to what is and we believe there’s something to learn from every conversation, and so that’s been a driving force in the work that we do, is like, what is there to learn from this conversation? And it doesn’t have to be a certain way. And that also just pertains to when you want to have exploited conversation with a co worker or anyone that you’re close to, it’s important to you, part of creating that space is the intention, the safety, which means you don’t have to answer a question you don’t want. For instance, when you play the card games, the rule is you have to ask every question, but you have the right to not answer any questions you don’t want. If they come to a production, they don’t have to answer any question they don’t want. Also, if they and we tell them to create safety, we say, when you guys have the conversation, the most important thing is that you both understand what you’re talking about. You do not need to explain yourselves to the cameras. So if a question comes up, you know, what was our worst experience? And you just look at each other, and you say that one time, oh yeah, that one time, the audience doesn’t know what happened. That one time doesn’t matter. They know what happened. In that sense, it gives them safety because they’re still connecting, but it gives them safety because they don’t have to explain anything, right? So that’s just how we do in the productions. In terms of the casting, when we started, we would basically take anybody who showed up. And what was beautiful is that there’s as many stories as there are grains of sand on the on the beach. There is something to learn from every conversation. If you have that perspective and you listen, right, we’re not very well practiced these days at listening, because all the content that we watch is about people talking you and so now that we’re in our 11th year and people fill out forms, it’s amazing. You know, unfortunately, we can’t accept everybody, and we go through it, and we’re really looking for different experiences that we haven’t recorded before, slightly different or Where’s there a great deal room of growth or opportunity here, between these couple, or whoever it is that these participants, it’s an opportunity for growth there and and what’s really beautiful is now, every time we do a production, people fly in for it. We don’t, it’s a documentary project. We don’t pay anyone to be on the end. But people fly in. We shoot film in LA. People fly in from Miami and from San Francisco, trying from Palm Springs to LA to just be on the end and go back. We film in Austin. People come from Houston. People come from New York. They wherever we film. People come in because at this point, a lot of their life has been impacted by our project, because they’ve seen relationships online that we’ve recorded that has informed their the way they want to behave in the relationships they want to have in their own life. And they’ve also bought the card games and played in their relationships. Does it made their ability to articulate their emotions, what I call emotional articulation, to a higher level, is it deep in their connection with the other partner? And so when there’s an opportunity to be in production, they just want to come in and have that experience.

Kris Safarova 23:47
So do you think the primary motivation, on average, is to have the experience? Yeah, for the person who is coming every both of them.

Topaz Adizes 23:55
I mean, look, my dad is so funny. My dad is, uh, my dad’s, you know, 11 years ago I started this. I showed it to him, like, this is a conversation with people gonna have conversations, because I don’t get it. I showed him the interactive website we had that when the Emmy’s like, I still don’t get it. Like, I don’t get why we have a live experience. He came for the live experience. He’s like, son, I don’t get it. I’m like, Okay, finally, we had a production. He came down, he sat down, we had a production. And he at the end, he said, Holy Moly, to open us, I didn’t get it, but I get it now. He’s like, son, if you’re trying to explain this to anyone, investors don’t explain it. Have them come do the end. And what here is that we humans, we have the innate ability to communicate, maybe some better than others, to tell stories, some better than others, but we use words to connect to ideas and emotions. You are living people. You. Living with other people in your life who you’re intimate with. You know, I don’t mean intimate, just physically. I mean emotionally. Could be your best friend, could be your child, could be your parent, could be your cousin, could be your coworker. You’re living through life to have the ability to share your experience, to hear someone else’s reflection of how you look in their life and them and yours. It’s a wonderful opportunity, and yes, it might be a little uncomfortable, but if it’s done in the safe space, the result, the payoff, why to even do it is because it deepens your experience of being alive, gives you a greater sense of fulfillment and joy and resilient in your relationships. And here’s the formula, here’s the formula, right? Here. This is Esther Perel, right? Best Selling Author and therapist and definitely a guru in this space. She says, the quality of your life is commensurate to the quality of your relationships, right? The better relationships, the better the quality of your life. Okay, well, then how do you have quality relationships? One way is have quality conversations. Okay, how do you have quality conversations? Create the space and ask well constructed questions. That’s That’s what we’re very good at create the space with intention. Ask well constructed questions. You’ll have a great conversation. Great conversations will deepen your relationship. Will make it more resilient, more fulfilling, more quality relationships means a better quality of life, more amplified sense of what it means to be human and alive. That’s okay, that’s the formula. That’s the calculation I’m offering.

Kris Safarova 26:41
Let’s talk about well constructed questions. How do you guys manage to do it

Topaz Adizes 26:46
so in terms of in a relationship? Or

Kris Safarova 26:51
let’s start with the format you are using for the documentary, and then we can explain how it can be used in the workplace.

Topaz Adizes 26:58
Well, yeah, the workplace relationships. You know, there’s things, five things that we’ve seen that if you can add these aspects to a question, you will make, you will create this a better constructed question for a more interesting conversation where you’ll learn a lot more. So number one and very beginning, is, if you begin a question with the word is, are? Do, should or would? If you start any question with those words, I don’t care what comes after those words, the answer is a binary question. It’s either yes, no, left, right, one, two or three. Is this the right thing for us to do? Yes, No. Should we launch this product or not? Yes, no. Do you want to, you know, cut our operating expenses? Yes, No. Should we? Would we? Yes, no. Binary. Where does that take you? Where’s the learning there, where’s the where’s the nuance there, Where’s, where’s the room for growth. Instead, begin with the questions with what, how, why? How can we limit our operating expenses? Why should we increase our net margin, our revenue costs, or why should we launch new product? There’s no quicker way to end a conversation with a asking a binary question. Yes, no, done. Next. Okay, that’s one two ask constructive questions. Why are we failing? That could be helpful. Your mind is gonna your mind is a faithful dog that chases any stick you throw. And the sticks that you throw are the questions you ask yourself or the ask, the questions you ask your company or your team. Why are we failing? Well, no, why is this? Why are we failing? Okay, that’s the question. The stick the dog will chase it down, because this, this, this, this. This. If instead you say, what can we learn from our failures? Okay, that’s the stick. The dog will go say, this is what we can learn from our failures. Now, which answer is going to be more constructive for you? Which one’s going to be more empowering for you? Which one’s going to give you more agency? Very simple example in the dating world, why they dumped me. Okay, you get a whole litany of reasons why they dumped you. How helpful is that? How much is that going to really make you feel better? Where’s that going to lead you? Instead, you go, what can I what can I learn from this last relationship that I’ll carry to the my next one? Asking that question is going to give you better and more empowering answers that’ll put you in a better position to improve your life, to come to a better the answer is shaped by the question, and we are asking ourselves questions all the time, even on an individual basis. Be aware of it. You wake up in the morning go, oh, I have to do that today. You don’t really. Eyes. That was an answer to a question. What do I have to do today? Oh, I gotta do that today. If instead you go, if that’s your first thought in the morning, go, wait, wait, wait, wait, I don’t want to ask that question. Instead, I want to ask a question. In today’s busy day, what I have a lot of conflict or challenges? What am I going to appreciate most? Where’s the room for growth in today’s challenging day that is going to be a question that’s going to give you a more empowering answer? Pay attention to questions you ask yourself. Pay attention to the questions you ask your team. So one is, don’t ask binary questions. Two, ask constructive questions. Three, don’t ask questions that have an agenda to them offer your questions as gifts, which means they’re rooted in curiosity, right? How would you know? Sometimes lawyers say, don’t ask a question that you don’t already know the answer to. Well, in that case, you’re not really having a conversation to explore. You’re actually playing chess. Political. Okay, fine, that’s the case. But how much you gonna learn there? You’re just playing chess. You’re gonna go you’re negotiating, okay, but you’re not really learning anything. It’s actually gonna give you a place where you’re gonna find opportunity for growth, for improvement, for change. So ask questions out of as a gift, not as an agenda, not as an intention, to get to a certain result. Fourth one is this is people often miss but ask questions that are connected, that acknowledge the people you’re in conversation with. What do I mean, Kris? If I ask you, What scares you the most, and later tonight, you’re at a restaurant and the waiter says, Kris, what scares you the most? And your mom calls you on the phone and says, Kris, what scares you the most? That question is not acknowledging the people who are asking it, the people you’re in conversation with, snakes. Snakes scare me the most. You know, losing my job, that’s what scares me the most. Okay, it’s the same answer. Regardless if I ask you, the waiter or your mom asks you that question. But instead, if you make it connective, which acknowledges the people you’re in conversation with, you say, hey, Kris, what do you think scares both of us the most? If I ask you that and the waiter asks you that, and your mom asks you that your answer will be entirely different. It acknowledges the people you’re in conversation with. So if you make that tweet to the question, it makes every conversation you have unique because of virtue of the people you’re in conversation with. And last is try to connect two disparate ideas and there’s two sides that. One is two disparate ideas, like, how much does earning money cost you? Kris, what does the effort of earning more income cost you? How does conflict make you better? What is the truth that you hate telling yourself, what is the lie that you love? Telling yourself so kind of inverting things and putting two things that are not usually connected together, a flip side of that is asking questions that put you or someone else in your shoes, or you and theirs. Kris, what do you think is the hardest thing being your friend. Now you have to put yourself in other people’s shoes and look at yourself and be like, Hmm, or for business, what is a value that we do not share with our clients? Hmm, okay, I don’t often ask that question, but, but I also put myself in my clients shoes and see what are the values they hold that we don’t with the values that we hold that they don’t that creates room for exploration and learning and growth and opportunity. Those are the five things that you can do to improve the questions you ask within a within a relationship someone else.

Kris Safarova 34:00
Thank you, Topaz. When you started recording those documentaries, do you remember some questions you asked the plate that you realized you shouldn’t be asking, or the way you were constructing questions? You realize you didn’t rethink it because you interviewed so many people, I wonder in the beginning, what are some major mistakes you were making with how you ask questions?

Topaz Adizes 34:23
Sure, sure. Well, I mean, in the beginning, I made all the mistakes I talked about. Now I asked binary questions. So I I learned these five qualities to a question that make them an excellent question by not doing them and then trying to adjust them. And there’s also other things that really helpful. So let’s say you’re in a business meeting. I say, Kris, why? Why is this product failing? Why is our marketing Why is our marketing strategy failing? Let’s say we’re on a team. We’re the marketing team. Why is. Our Why is our I’m asking you, what is our marketing strategy failing? That question puts you in a position of objective reality. You’re going to say the objective truth, because it why is this marketing strategy failing? Instead, I could put you in a position where you feel freer to say your opinion, because it’s your opinion by saying, making it subjective, I say, Why do you think? Just putting the words, do you think or do you feel? Why do you think this marketing strategy? Why do you feel this that’s less of a something for us to fight about, because it’s not the objective truth. Why is this marketing strategy failing? Well, because they said, No, that’s not true. That’s not why it’s failing. I think it’s good. Okay, wait, wait, wait, why do you feel, or why do you think this marketing strategy is failing? Oh, well, then you give your opinion. I there’s less for me to argue with, because that’s your opinion. Is how you feel, it’s how you think. I can’t argue with how you think, how you feel. We can argue on the facts of what we think is true. But so by asking that question, do you think? Do you feel? Creates the space for So acknowledge the differences that way, the way we see things, and creates a space for less conflict. And then there’s another level that you can do, which is you add to the end. So I call it the bungee cord. It’s like you give someone a question that goes deep and gives them an opportunity to say something that might be a little hurtful or, you know, uncomfortable, but you give them the bungee cord out so that they can, they can kind of meter it. And what I mean by that is, what’s a mistake you see me make repeatedly? Oh, I’m going to tell you why you make a mistake with Billy. And here’s the bungee cord. And why do you think I do it? And why do you think I do it that puts you in my shoes. And that’s how you can actually start creating an empathy of saying, okay, topaz, I think a mistake you make is you, know, do this and this and that. But I think you do that because, you know, you were raised in this culture, or because you’re scared of failing in the KPIs, or whatever it is. But that enables you to actually go deeper, because then you can come out and actually put yourself in the shoes and say, here’s why. I suspect you do that, and that creates a bridge of you, kind of giving an effort to see it from their point of view and just to find the experience that they’re having. So there’s many ways to shape questions that create space to explore and exploration. And we don’t get taught this. You don’t, you don’t get no one teaches you how to ask quality questions, you know, and how to create conversations that are cathartic and exploratory. You basically learn the way to converse through your friend group, or, well, first of all, from your family. You got it modeled in your family, your friend group, and then the culture of the company you work at. But who’s How do we create that space? How do we bring more conscientiousness to create this space and, well, constructive questions, because if you do that, you can find the magical opportunities that exist for your business, for your life, for your relationship

Kris Safarova 38:09
you earlier mentioned, so to say, rules that make people feel that they are safe. So for example, they don’t need to answer questions if they don’t want to certain questions. Are there other specific rules boundaries? I know you mentioned it in the book that you want to share with our listeners right now, that they need to keep in mind what kind of rules and boundaries they should consider for the conversations to be deep and impactful.

Topaz Adizes 38:35
I think what’s helpful is for whoever is creating this, whoever’s in this space, for them to mutually create the rules, especially in the workspace. All right, team, this is our rules of our team. What are the rules of our team? Nobody shows up late if they do. This is what happens. We don’t yell each other. We don’t cut each other off if it gets too, you know, heated we we started going around in a circle with a Talking Stick, something like that. It’s just, what are the ground rules? If there’s no like, think about when you’re a kid, you’re on the you’re on the you’re on the on the playground, and the first thing you do when you play game is, like, what are the rules? Let’s all make sure we know what the boundaries are. Then we explore within that. If someone keeps breaking the rules, do you want to play with them anymore? So let’s articulate what the rules are. You can shape that yourself with the conversation. What’s really helpful? Oftentimes, if we’re going to have a certain conversation, one rule that’s usually helpful, it should be articulated if you want to create the space, is put the phone away and don’t put the phone on the table. Or nobody’s looking at the phone, or it’s okay to look for the phone for the first five minutes or the 10 minutes. Or, you know what, all of us can look at the phone, fine. We’re all accepting that’s the rule, okay? But it’s good to have not limits, but boundaries, because in boundaries, we feel safe, and when we feel safe. If we can become uncomfortable in a safe way, if you do not feel safe, that’s a fundamental challenge, because then you should not if you don’t feel safe, you should not have these vulnerable conversations, right? So then the question is, am I feeling? Am I unsafe? Or am I just uncomfortable? Do I trust this person, or do I not trust this person in certain relationships? You could say, if I don’t trust them, I’m not gonna have a conversation in the workplace, it’s a little different, isn’t it, because maybe you don’t trust them. But my gosh, we got to launch this product. We have to accomplish this task. You know, then we’re we’re on the same level, or this is even my boss can’t fire my boss can’t fire my colleague. How do we make that work?

Kris Safarova 40:47
How do you define deep listening? You mentioned it in the book,

Topaz Adizes 40:51
yeah. So that’s, I mean, I that’s come up because of when you watch so many conversations, and I start noticing when people are listening with their entire being. What I mean by their entire being really is, is they’re using their body. They’re listening with their body. And oftentimes, a lot of the time, we’re all listening to respond, right? We’re listening to then respond so that we whatever we we can get what we want. We can win the argument. We can sound smart. We can make them like us, but you’re listening so that you can respond. And what I’m suggesting is don’t not when you want to have an exploratory conversation, a deepening of your relationship, a cathartic conversation, to find that opportunity is like, listen with your body by breathing in and listen with your body. I call it feeling to listen, right? That’s, that’s what I suggest. And I I saw that specific the first time, really with we have a pair that’s come on about eight or nine times. There are a couple named Sidra and Ben, and I saw that in watching how they communicate with each other. They’re always taking each other in. They don’t start responding until the other they have eye contact with the other person. And when someone says something is heavy or kind or anything. They don’t rush to an answer. They actually let it hit them and sit in them, and they breathe in it, and they feel the emotion, and then they share. And that’s that I find to be an opportunity of a way to have a conversation that is not scripted by cultural mantras or societal programming. You actually listen to your body, seeing how that feels and seeing where that leads to. That’s what we call deep listening.

Kris Safarova 42:47
I love it. I think I practice it a lot. Yeah, just recently, I was interviewing someone, and he was asking me, Can you tell me the first question? Do you have it prepared? What is it? And they said, No, generally, I just I introduced the gas, and then it comes naturally with the right first place for us to start from, and then we build from there. Beautiful. What are some other things you want to share that you wanted me to ask you, and they didn’t nothing,

Topaz Adizes 43:12
I mean, but I hope this is a value to any listener, and that’s really why I’m here.

Kris Safarova 43:19
Then I’ll ask you a question outside of our today’s discussion, two quick questions to wrap up. First one is, do you have specific practices? So to say, success, habits that you rely on that really help you create art, that you create and live a successful, fulfilled life?

Topaz Adizes 43:37
I don’t really have a practice that I can think of right now, other than showing up and just keep going. And I think one thing that something that I learned, which is like, basically, was that the same, and this is something that I tell myself, which is, look, just because it doesn’t happen when you want it to happen does not mean it’s not going to happen. Say it again. Just because it’s doesn’t happen when you want it to happen doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen. It’s just not going to happen on your timeline. Life doesn’t go on your timeline. It goes on its timeline. But if you do the work, and you do and you’re consistent, and you focus on what you’re practicing. You practice it, and you show up consistently with micro changes every day. It’ll show up on this timeline, not yours. So don’t get discouraged. Focus on the consistent micro changes that you’re making. Are you showing up every day? Are you? Are you doing your best practice to create excellence in your own way? The end result didn’t happen right now. Okay, that doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen.

Kris Safarova 44:52
And the last question from me today is, over the last few years, were there any aha moments realization? Emotions that really change the way you look at life or at your work.

Topaz Adizes 45:04
Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? That’s not whole other podcast episode. I mean, I, I just became a I’m a father of a four year old and an 18 month old. I mean, learning something every day, not even learning. I’m being tested every every moment with them, you know, and being a better father, you know, healing being a better father to my own wounded child inside of me. They’re great teachers. They really require patience and love and acceptance, and they are gurus. The kids are, um, friends dying, friends dying. And one thing I’ve learned is I don’t need people to like me. I need them to show up for me. Because some friends talk and they don’t show up for you, and some friends don’t talk, but they show up for you. So what’s important, and most importantly, how do you show up for others? I mean, I’m, I guess the only practice I have is that I’m I spend a lot of time asking myself questions and paying attention to questions I ask myself in any conversation and in any interaction, when things come up, it’s like, okay, what can I learn from this? What is, what is life teaching me? What is the opportunity here? Where? Where is the wound in me that I can work on now? How can I be more patient with myself?

Kris Safarova 46:38
Thank you, Topaz. Where can our viewers, listeners, learn more about you. Buy your book, anything you want to share?

Topaz Adizes 46:46
Great, the skin deep, calm. That’s a great place to go. You can buy our book, all our products there, everything to see our videos and our conversations on the different channels. Just look up the skin deep, the skin deep. Also, the book 12 questions for love is available on Amazon, anywhere you get your books, ebook, audiobook, all that jazz. It’s it’s easy to get and, yeah, that’s about it.

Kris Safarova 47:11
Thank you for the work you’re doing. I really appreciate you taking the time to be here with all the things you have going on in your life.

Topaz Adizes 47:17
Kris, thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Kris Safarova 47:19
Our guest today, again, has been the past adhesives. Check out his book. It’s called 12 questions, follow up. And our podcast sponsor today is strategy training.com and we have a gift for you. It’s called the overall approach. Houston, well managed strategy studies. It’s a free download, and you can get it at firmsconsulting.com forward slash overallapproach. And you can also get another gift. It’s a McKinsey and BCG bean resume, free download, and you can get it at firmsconsulting.com forward slash resume. Thank you everyone for tuning in, and I look forward to connect with you all next time.